I have found that the EMA 17 cross above the EMA 50 is just about where the Traders group and the Investors group separate from each other . You know that little clear gap between the 2 groups. The EMA 17 cross above the EMA 50 isn't in stone but I use as a starting point . The stock can still fail. Guppy MMA show that the trend is changing. I post a video about a week ago and Mr Guppy was showing a class on using Guppy MMA. He had no price candles just the Guppy MMA 2 groups. It was a very good video I thought. No price , no indicators and no Oscillators.
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